Latest Developments
Dark Side of a Boycott
Posted by boycottstevencohen
at 03:20 PM on August 20, 2009
|
Ginge Talks the Footy has a new piece up concerning Tony "New Mexico"s experiences receiving threats and intimidation due to his involvement in the boycott.
Steven Cohen made a lot of the threats he has received, and we have always offered our complete cooperation in bringing anyone to justice who makes such contact. No one involved in any organizational capacity with the boycott has ever sent such emails, and we have always urged no contact with Cohen whatsoever.
Cohen was perfectly willing to paint this campaign, the LFCNY, and even Liverpool and former advertisers with a broad brush, saying they somehow condoned and supported threats against him.
So what was he up to during this time?
He was doing something we've never done, nor would ever do; discovering and distributing personal information about Tony, including where he was temporarily staying in a hotel, and where he personally resides. Tony felt that an email where Cohen referenced his wife's birthday was another attempt at intimidation, and went to the FBI.
The odd anonymous threat is a natural consequence of doing anything that is remotely controversial, and I can sympathise with both sides on this. There are always going to be a small amount of idiots that lack the perspective and sense to conduct themselves in a reasonable fashion, that's a sad fact of life.
What I don't have sympathy for are errors in judgment in areas where people have total control. Cohen has complete control of his own actions, and given he has a public voice, he has control of what information he distributes to his listeners, as well as a responsibility to urge a reasonable cause of action. Cohen's anger at our position has taken him over the line, yet again.
It will be interesting to see if others come forward with similar experiences, as this isn't an isolated incident.
Edit: BigSoccer.com has done an exhaustive account of the whole Cohen affair entitled "Birthday Wishes from Steven Cohen," including his comment on this very issue, stating:
"It wasn't immediately obvious from Ginge's post, but there was no wayCohen would have known the name of Tony in New Mexico's wife withoutactively researching that information. Which does make this like amobster saying "Best of luck to you, your flammable business, and yourtiny children as they play on those deathtrap swings on the playgroundat the corner of Elm and Pine Street at 2:30 this afternoon."
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Job well done?
04:35 AM on September 02, 2009
the worst part of this is that i plan to take it out on innocent liverpool fans in my area that have nothing to do with this. nothing violent, i'm just going to throw drinks on their jerseys or something. maybe a suckerpunch. whatever i feel your fan base deserves depending on my mood. fighting back against the bullies i see it as.
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shame on you all
04:27 AM on September 02, 2009
Your response to this situation is very undemocratic. You obviously have something to hide when you fans react in such a way. From an outside perspective, your overreaction makes your parties look guilty. Freedom of speech is more important than your fragile egos. I've always kind of liked LFC, but i am now a vicious enemy of the club. Guilt is the only explanation for your overreaction. I wish you people would realize what a backward step you are taking. Based on liverpool "supporters" acting in such a manner I can't help but believe it is NO COINCIDENCE that lfc is involved in so many horrible tragedies. Your attitudes are tragic.
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antiscouse
01:04 PM on August 26, 2009
wait for the crackback you fucking fringe players. the rest of the world knows what liverpool scum are about. you lot of cowardly cunts won't even hold your hands up and accept blame for heysel. this will be on your heads soon enough.
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AlastairCairns
12:41 AM on August 22, 2009
1. trans. To bring ill fame, infamy, or dishonour upon, to dishonour or disgrace in fact; to render infamous. Obs. or arch.
First, let's ditch this shared responsibility thing, he never stated that, he said "they are the perpetrators" he stated "they are responsible". He also said we actively worked to cover this up "to be relieved of the shame and guilt and if you can get the South Yorkshire police to admit something juust (sic) to get you off their backs".
His argument sullies the name of the dead by suggesting that it was their actions that caused them to die, that they, if they had lived, would have something to be ashamed of, when there isn't any evidence to suggest it. Those who survived this horrible crush had survival guilt by the very nature of the event, this was compounded by the assumptions that immediately followed the incident, and Cohen sought to compound these still.
You speak in terms of a lynch mob, when in reality its been a pretty clinical campaign of sending quotes of what a man said by email, and letting companies with public emails know how these quotes alter purchasing decisions. That doesn't sound demonizing, unless it is the man's words that are the most damning thing.
First, let's ditch this shared responsibility thing, he never stated that, he said "they are the perpetrators" he stated "they are responsible". He also said we actively worked to cover this up "to be relieved of the shame and guilt and if you can get the South Yorkshire police to admit something juust (sic) to get you off their backs".
His argument sullies the name of the dead by suggesting that it was their actions that caused them to die, that they, if they had lived, would have something to be ashamed of, when there isn't any evidence to suggest it. Those who survived this horrible crush had survival guilt by the very nature of the event, this was compounded by the assumptions that immediately followed the incident, and Cohen sought to compound these still.
You speak in terms of a lynch mob, when in reality its been a pretty clinical campaign of sending quotes of what a man said by email, and letting companies with public emails know how these quotes alter purchasing decisions. That doesn't sound demonizing, unless it is the man's words that are the most damning thing.
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Kevin Smith
12:21 AM on August 22, 2009
One more question for you Alistair,
I listened to the interview with Conor O'Neirne and one quote struck me.
He said Steven Cohen 'defamed the dead' like it was an indisputable face
Can you or anyone else on this site come up with even one example of where Cohen 'defamed the dead'?
This gets to the core of your movement's problem?
You have allowed yourslves to get carried away with a sense of grievance which is completely out of proportion to anything Cohen ever said!
Like I say, as a group that it acting as the speech police you need to be extra vigilant about the things your represenatives say. At worst Cohen can be accused of being an insensitive p***k! But your movement is a lynch mob!
I listened to the interview with Conor O'Neirne and one quote struck me.
He said Steven Cohen 'defamed the dead' like it was an indisputable face
Can you or anyone else on this site come up with even one example of where Cohen 'defamed the dead'?
This gets to the core of your movement's problem?
You have allowed yourslves to get carried away with a sense of grievance which is completely out of proportion to anything Cohen ever said!
Like I say, as a group that it acting as the speech police you need to be extra vigilant about the things your represenatives say. At worst Cohen can be accused of being an insensitive p***k! But your movement is a lynch mob!
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Kevin Smith
10:21 PM on August 21, 2009
Thank you for your thoughtful response.
However, the point is that once you put yourself up there as judge and jury as you have in this case you cannont tolerate any of the nonsense that is all over this site.
You have essentially ruined a man because of a few comments he made but you are clearly willing to ignore vile and disgusting comments on behalf of many in your group. We all have a right to occasionally say things we don't mean but a movement who's very cause is to condemn a man's spoken words and, yes, opinions should be extra viliigant.
I agree that Steven Cohen made some insensitive comments but really if you look at it he has offended Liverpool fans. He has in no way malligened the dead or let it be said, ANY specific individual.
He has merely commented on his interpretation of a sequence of events. How can that be a crime?
As for Kenny Hassan - should he be ruined too? And Nick Geber? A Liverpool fan.
You seem like a very reasonable person and I do hear the points you are making but I belive that your organization has gone too far and has become carried away with an innapropirate sense of righteousness!
AGain, I too mourn the 96 but I think that maybe in our attempts to move on we have not learned very much
However, the point is that once you put yourself up there as judge and jury as you have in this case you cannont tolerate any of the nonsense that is all over this site.
You have essentially ruined a man because of a few comments he made but you are clearly willing to ignore vile and disgusting comments on behalf of many in your group. We all have a right to occasionally say things we don't mean but a movement who's very cause is to condemn a man's spoken words and, yes, opinions should be extra viliigant.
I agree that Steven Cohen made some insensitive comments but really if you look at it he has offended Liverpool fans. He has in no way malligened the dead or let it be said, ANY specific individual.
He has merely commented on his interpretation of a sequence of events. How can that be a crime?
As for Kenny Hassan - should he be ruined too? And Nick Geber? A Liverpool fan.
You seem like a very reasonable person and I do hear the points you are making but I belive that your organization has gone too far and has become carried away with an innapropirate sense of righteousness!
AGain, I too mourn the 96 but I think that maybe in our attempts to move on we have not learned very much
Reply
AlastairCairns
07:51 PM on August 21, 2009
Kevin Smith says...
Alastair,
You may be right but timj and his ilk aren't exactly subtle themselves comparing people to Hitler etc.
Frankly, some of the comments in this thread are far worse than anything Cohen said - should we all go out and force these people out of their jobs?
I listen to the show and I kind of agree he went over the top on this topic but if you listen a lot you'd hear that he just a bit of a blowhard, no different from most of us when we're on a roll. The reaction of this group is so out of proportion to anything he said as to be ridiculous!
Cohen hasn't exactly made the more subtle argument you made, he made vitriolic hateful statements, he didn't say "well, perhaps we need to have a fair minded look at the atmosphere of the day." He said "they are the perpetrators" he reveled in singing "murderers", he called the HJC, made up of families and survivors, "corrupt and blatantly rediculous".
Don't pretend he took up some nuanced logical position, he had a prejudicial hatred of Liverpool and it informed his speech in such a way that he defamed the dead, bringing in shifting, made up statistics, and whatever other lies he could fabricate to serve his purpose.
I'm in agreement with you that there are people on both sides who haven't covered themselves with glory in terms of the level of their discourse. My girlfriend, who I've lived with for 4 years is Jewish, and I do find it despicable that the odd person has apprently sunk to those depths, and its a shame that there has been hyperbolic rhetoric on both sides, but to be frank, its also unavoidable with something this controversial and passionate. I've been committed to trying to moderate this debate as little as possible, but I have deleted things from both sides that have been well beyond the pale, and I don't relish seeing this sort of thing.
What I don't think is fair is ascribing the acts of the few to some sort of official position of one side. If I thought that this campaign was actively pursuing threats etc, I would immediately stop any involvement on my part. Cohen, in the same breath as complaining about alleged threats against he and his family, has directed people on air to the ADDRESSES of those involved in this campaign. Frankly that is despicable.
The Taylor report is not an absolute fact, but it is the most authoritative account available. Setting aside the fact that the things that Cohen said were not just a different perspective on available evidence, but instead advocating different facts, that don't gel with the facts, observations, CCTV footage, eye witness accounts, police reports etc, of course there is room for interpretation there. If his position was the more subtle, couched remark you made, I've no doubt it would have irked many people, and I still would be in disagreement with it, but this would have never happened. If his response to our initial protestations was more sensible, as we have seen in other cases, for instance bowling for columbine, things wouldn't have progressed as they have.
Instead he was deliberately controversial, he stated comments repeatedly, at sensitive times of remembrance, even after apology, and I believe was mostly motivated by his disgust for a football club. I think he let his personal prejudice take him into an area that is incredibly sensitive, and not for any noble reason.
His remarks were quite disgusting, and I don't feel that the general response has been out of proportion, though I regret the personal stupidity of the few on both sides.
Reply
Sean
07:11 PM on August 21, 2009
Kevin Smith says...
Alistair:
As you seem to be the grown up in this organization, I have a question for you?
Are you comfortable with the angry nonsense that people like timj spout on this site? (Hitler, facists etc...)
Do you think this undermines your point? (given that you are ruining a man's career for shooting off his mouth)
Do you think it is acceptable to hold the opinion, as I do, that the Liverpool fan base, should take some level of responsibility for the tragic events in Hillsbrough or are the findings of the Taylor Report absolute and beyond debate?
Well done to all involved. Amazing result really but Cohen did his best to assist you in your endeavor.
To Kevin - you're comparing apples and oranges. People shout their mouths off about Hillsborough all the time on websites and, if anyone even notices, no action is taken other than to possibly try to change their minds or to shout back. When someone in a prominent radio position goes out of his way to spew hateful inaccuracies about Hillsborough it is a different matter entirely. Broadcasting disgraceful comments about the disaster to thousands of people is obviously far worse than making stupid comments online.
Cohen was offered the chance to review the overwhelming evidence against his outrageous opinion and correct his statements. When this was rejected a legitimate boycott began. To which Cohen said "bring it on". He is entirely responsible for his own downfall.
The Taylor Report is not beyond debate. Of course not. However, I feel that any argument against it's findings would be extremely weak due to the weight of evidence supporting it's findings. I do not think it is acceptable to conclude that Liverpool supporters at Hillsborough should take any responsibility for the deaths of the 96. Unless your argument is that they share responsibility simply for arriving at a game and attempting to enter the stadium.
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Kevin Smith
06:43 PM on August 21, 2009
Alistair:
As you seem to be the grown up in this organization, I have a question for you?
Are you comfortable with the angry nonsense that people like timj spout on this site? (Hitler, facists etc...)
Do you think this undermines your point? (given that you are ruining a man's career for shooting off his mouth)
Do you think it is acceptable to hold the opinion, as I do, that the Liverpool fan base, should take some level of responsibility for the tragic events in Hillsbrough or are the findings of the Taylor Report absolute and beyond debate?
As you seem to be the grown up in this organization, I have a question for you?
Are you comfortable with the angry nonsense that people like timj spout on this site? (Hitler, facists etc...)
Do you think this undermines your point? (given that you are ruining a man's career for shooting off his mouth)
Do you think it is acceptable to hold the opinion, as I do, that the Liverpool fan base, should take some level of responsibility for the tragic events in Hillsbrough or are the findings of the Taylor Report absolute and beyond debate?
Reply
Kevin Smith
06:16 PM on August 21, 2009
Timj,
So now I'm a facist! And Hitler!
Don't you see that your making my point for me!
During the course of this thread you've said far worse things about me than anythjing Cohen said about Liverpool fans in general! I think you are doing a very good job at proving my point that your organization is a bunch of bullies - the second someone argues with you on the points you resort to calling them names!
I can't proves fans misbehaved, you can't prove they didn't so there you go! Now should I start harrassing you and force you to lost your job like you did to Cohen?
So now I'm a facist! And Hitler!
Don't you see that your making my point for me!
During the course of this thread you've said far worse things about me than anythjing Cohen said about Liverpool fans in general! I think you are doing a very good job at proving my point that your organization is a bunch of bullies - the second someone argues with you on the points you resort to calling them names!
I can't proves fans misbehaved, you can't prove they didn't so there you go! Now should I start harrassing you and force you to lost your job like you did to Cohen?
Reply
Kevin Smith
06:08 PM on August 21, 2009
Alastair,
You may be right but timj and his ilk aren't exactly subtle themselves comparing people to Hitler etc.
Frankly, some of the comments in this thread are far worse than anything Cohen said - should we all go out and force these people out of their jobs?
I listen to the show and I kind of agree he went over the top on this topic but if you listen a lot you'd hear that he just a bit of a blowhard, no different from most of us when we're on a roll. The reaction of this group is so out of proportion to anything he said as to be ridiculous!
Cohen hasn't exactly made the more subtle argument you made, he made vitriolic hateful statements, he didn't say "well, perhaps we need to have a fair minded look at the atmosphere of the day." He said "they are the perpetrators" he reveled in singing "murderers", he called the HJC, made up of families and survivors, "corrupt and blatantly rediculous".
Don't pretend he took up some nuanced logical position, he had a prejudicial hatred of Liverpool and it informed his speech in such a way that he defamed the dead, bringing in shifting, made up statistics, and whatever other lies he could fabricate to serve his purpose.
[/AlastairCairns]
You may be right but timj and his ilk aren't exactly subtle themselves comparing people to Hitler etc.
Frankly, some of the comments in this thread are far worse than anything Cohen said - should we all go out and force these people out of their jobs?
I listen to the show and I kind of agree he went over the top on this topic but if you listen a lot you'd hear that he just a bit of a blowhard, no different from most of us when we're on a roll. The reaction of this group is so out of proportion to anything he said as to be ridiculous!
Cohen hasn't exactly made the more subtle argument you made, he made vitriolic hateful statements, he didn't say "well, perhaps we need to have a fair minded look at the atmosphere of the day." He said "they are the perpetrators" he reveled in singing "murderers", he called the HJC, made up of families and survivors, "corrupt and blatantly rediculous".
Don't pretend he took up some nuanced logical position, he had a prejudicial hatred of Liverpool and it informed his speech in such a way that he defamed the dead, bringing in shifting, made up statistics, and whatever other lies he could fabricate to serve his purpose.
[/AlastairCairns]
Reply
timj
06:05 PM on August 21, 2009
Steve/Kevin
You reap what you sow.You werent there.But you know as a lieing scumbag the truth .i watched it on tv ,taylor report.so why does cohen have to hurt the families of the 96 .if im going to be hit by cohens facists.kevin facists are people who tell lies and say its true.like holocaust deniers
You reap what you sow.You werent there.But you know as a lieing scumbag the truth .i watched it on tv ,taylor report.so why does cohen have to hurt the families of the 96 .if im going to be hit by cohens facists.kevin facists are people who tell lies and say its true.like holocaust deniers
Reply
AlastairCairns
06:02 PM on August 21, 2009
Kevin Smith says...
Tim,
Everybody regrets the deaths of the 96 fans. Everyone agrees that they were not responsible for what happened.
Most people, myself included, agree that the police were hugely responsible for the 96 deaths. Most people, myself included, agree that they have acted dishonourably in the intervening years.
But many people, myself included, also believe that some Liverpool fans should share in the blame. I base my opinion on first hand experiences at Anfield and at Liverpool games in 89.
Ther athmosphere at games that year was toxic and there was a constant threat of something like this happening. While nobody meant this to happen the fact is that there were people at the back of the crowd applyling pressure. Even though they didn't mean to cause deaths it is reasonable to conclude that they share some of the blame. This is just my opinion and how you can factually say that this is not true is beyond me.
Now, Cohen may be a blowhard but the fact is that he only stated an opinion, an opinion that I share.
You have no right to claim that anyone who comes to the logical conclusion I have is disrespecting the dead!
I just regret that you have forced 2 patently decent blokes off the air in the name of the 96!
One more time - no disrespect to the 96, JUST YOU!
Cohen hasn't exactly made the more subtle argument you made, he made vitriolic hateful statements, he didn't say "well, perhaps we need to have a fair minded look at the atmosphere of the day." He said "they are the perpetrators" he reveled in singing "murderers", he called the HJC, made up of families and survivors, "corrupt and blatantly rediculous".
Don't pretend he took up some nuanced logical position, he had a prejudicial hatred of Liverpool and it informed his speech in such a way that he defamed the dead, bringing in shifting, made up statistics, and whatever other lies he could fabricate to serve his purpose.
Reply
Kevin Smith
05:58 PM on August 21, 2009
Tim,
Everybody regrets the deaths of the 96 fans. Everyone agrees that they were not responsible for what happened.
Most people, myself included, agree that the police were hugely responsible for the 96 deaths. Most people, myself included, agree that they have acted dishonourably in the intervening years.
But many people, myself included, also believe that some Liverpool fans should share in the blame. I base my opinion on first hand experiences at Anfield and at Liverpool games in 89.
Ther athmosphere at games that year was toxic and there was a constant threat of something like this happening. While nobody meant this to happen the fact is that there were people at the back of the crowd applyling pressure. Even though they didn't mean to cause deaths it is reasonable to conclude that they share some of the blame. This is just my opinion and how you can factually say that this is not true is beyond me.
Now, Cohen may be a blowhard but the fact is that he only stated an opinion, an opinion that I share.
You have no right to claim that anyone who comes to the logical conclusion I have is disrespecting the dead!
I just regret that you have forced 2 patently decent blokes off the air in the name of the 96!
One more time - no disrespect to the 96, JUST YOU!
Everybody regrets the deaths of the 96 fans. Everyone agrees that they were not responsible for what happened.
Most people, myself included, agree that the police were hugely responsible for the 96 deaths. Most people, myself included, agree that they have acted dishonourably in the intervening years.
But many people, myself included, also believe that some Liverpool fans should share in the blame. I base my opinion on first hand experiences at Anfield and at Liverpool games in 89.
Ther athmosphere at games that year was toxic and there was a constant threat of something like this happening. While nobody meant this to happen the fact is that there were people at the back of the crowd applyling pressure. Even though they didn't mean to cause deaths it is reasonable to conclude that they share some of the blame. This is just my opinion and how you can factually say that this is not true is beyond me.
Now, Cohen may be a blowhard but the fact is that he only stated an opinion, an opinion that I share.
You have no right to claim that anyone who comes to the logical conclusion I have is disrespecting the dead!
I just regret that you have forced 2 patently decent blokes off the air in the name of the 96!
One more time - no disrespect to the 96, JUST YOU!
Reply
timj
05:31 PM on August 21, 2009
Bill
sorry to dissapoint you the man is not respected by the club he supports(remember Avrim Grant there mewish manager who used to grt anti semitic stuff chanted at him)Steve go and sign onto welfare asap.
Well done Liverpool fans world wide .This piece of scum is feeling sorry for himself. Leyt him rot in hell.
sorry to dissapoint you the man is not respected by the club he supports(remember Avrim Grant there mewish manager who used to grt anti semitic stuff chanted at him)Steve go and sign onto welfare asap.
Well done Liverpool fans world wide .This piece of scum is feeling sorry for himself. Leyt him rot in hell.
Reply
timj
05:25 PM on August 21, 2009
Adrian
Cracking open a Heineken.Bit tired cos was over at the game on Weds.
Now Kevin f..k off.You know Cohen is discredited.Hello.Chelsea fc made an official statement saying the have nothing to do with him.Kevin get real the man is a proven liar. plus wasnt he making veiled threats to tony new mexico that the Feds are investigating
Cracking open a Heineken.Bit tired cos was over at the game on Weds.
Now Kevin f..k off.You know Cohen is discredited.Hello.Chelsea fc made an official statement saying the have nothing to do with him.Kevin get real the man is a proven liar. plus wasnt he making veiled threats to tony new mexico that the Feds are investigating
Reply
Bill
05:22 PM on August 21, 2009
After personally seeing all the hate mail that Cohen received from you and your groups, it is so ridiculous that you would even have the audacity to post something as spun as the above. No wonder everyone hates Liverpool and feels like Cohen in respect to the 96. You've only tainted your Club, their brand and the cause of the 96 in many, many peoples eyes. Fuck off.
Reply
Adrian
05:17 PM on August 21, 2009
Kevin?s just part a little band of Cohen cronies with an orchestrated campaign to flood websites like this, desperately trying to suggest Cohen's broadcasting career is not disintegrating and the boycott?s failing.
Now Cohen is off the air, let's raise a glass to a job well done and to the 96 Kopites no longer with us. Kevin, Bob, Bill and Geoff (reading their posts from just the last few days are hilarious btw!) can crawl back into their miserable hole, dropped by Cohen like a lead weight. And LFCNY, as it should be, will again be just a volunteer organization of supporters of the world?s greatest football club. Well done everyone.
Now Cohen is off the air, let's raise a glass to a job well done and to the 96 Kopites no longer with us. Kevin, Bob, Bill and Geoff (reading their posts from just the last few days are hilarious btw!) can crawl back into their miserable hole, dropped by Cohen like a lead weight. And LFCNY, as it should be, will again be just a volunteer organization of supporters of the world?s greatest football club. Well done everyone.
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Kevin Smith
04:49 PM on August 21, 2009
WHy do you always hide behind the 96? Cohen went out of his way to show respect for the 96 - everyone does!
But you have turned yourselves into the victims. Criicising Liverpool fans is not the same things as criticising the 96 victims. By making yourselves the victims you have paid the ultimate disrespect to the 96 dead. Whether they dies because of police mistakes or irresponsible fans or both does not matter to them - it only matters to you! You are not helping them, you are only helping yourself.
As for the Hitler stuff, sad!
But you have turned yourselves into the victims. Criicising Liverpool fans is not the same things as criticising the 96 victims. By making yourselves the victims you have paid the ultimate disrespect to the 96 dead. Whether they dies because of police mistakes or irresponsible fans or both does not matter to them - it only matters to you! You are not helping them, you are only helping yourself.
As for the Hitler stuff, sad!
Reply
timj
04:06 PM on August 21, 2009
Kevin
Lies arent opinions.You must be Cohen in disguise because you cannot meant to be taken seriously..The man is vile . so was Hitler .He had opinions.ohen feel proud of yourself for financially hurting your own family because ove your hatred for the 96.Kevin you have shown the ultimate disrespect for the 96 with your comment.
YNWA
Lies arent opinions.You must be Cohen in disguise because you cannot meant to be taken seriously..The man is vile . so was Hitler .He had opinions.ohen feel proud of yourself for financially hurting your own family because ove your hatred for the 96.Kevin you have shown the ultimate disrespect for the 96 with your comment.
YNWA
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